There are many adult adoptees as well as birth parents who advocate for open records. They do protest, write letters and generally do what all advocates do to get their point of view across.

Korea had a national day of apology when they apologized to all adoptees for sending them away.

There have been unethical adoptions (gray market black market etc) and those birth parents/adoptees have also been vocal.
There are a lot of issues in adoption and everyone does not always agree.

I’m not exactly sure what you’re talking about.  The Mormons are deeply involved in adoption through LDS Family Services. 

As for protests, yes we have them.  People from across the country are involved including some folks from NYC.  Oppressive laws are oppressive laws, and chances are pretty good that wherever they exist, someone is organizing against them.  Adoption certainly has its fair share of oppressive laws.

http://www.unsealedinitiative.org/index.html

I was looking up examples of DBM letters & came across a site saying there should not be any DBM letters because adoption should not exist and all women who give up babies for adoption are forced into it. These people think adoption is just wrong. It has nothing to do with open records, they think it should not happen. I don’t understand it.  Their view is adoptive parents are bad people. So we are all bad people becasue we cannot bear children? Again this is the website I read and I guess I am not that clear on it, http://letterstomsfeverfew.wordpress.com/

The members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka “Mormons” aka “LDS”) are very very pro-adoption. They even have their own adoption services, as Jeanne mentioned, called LDS Family Services (itsaboutlove.org). You may have found them mentioned amongst anti-adoption advocates because they are so heavily involved in the adoption community and many anti-adoption advocates blame LDSFS and/or their practices for “adoptions gone wrong.” (Which is interesting given that LDSFS is one of the more ethical agencies that currently practice adoption.)

That being said, yes, there are quite a few anti-adoption advocates out there that are openly against adoption. These individuals come from all walks of life but the majority appear to be birth mothers (who take great offense at that term). A lot of these women come from what is known as the “Baby Scoop Era.” You can read about the BSE here: http://babyscoopera.com/

Many of these woman were lied and cheated out of their babies. Understandably so, they are very bittered towards adoption in general. Some to the point where they truly believe adoption practices today mirror those during the BSE and there is no such thing as an ethical adoption. It gets to the point where they’ll viciously attack anyone who voices pro-adoption sentiments, including other birth mothers. It’s really a tragic situation for everyone involved. These woman have and continue to experience a great deal of pain at the hands of adoption.

However, don’t allow the negativity to discourage you. As long as you are pursuing adoption in an ethical manner, you need to let their statements roll off your back. It is impossible to make blanket statements when it comes to adoption so when you read something that tells you all birth mothers were brainwashed, or all adoptees will be screwed up, or all adoptive parents are baby snatchers - please just take it with a grain of salt and remove yourself from the negativity.

When done right, adoption IS a beautiful thing.

Thank you so much for your explanation.  This is extremely helpful.

When people mention Utah in protest of adoption they are probably referring to Utah’s adoption laws. Utah has very “pro adoption” laws. Which could be construed as anti birth parent laws. For example mothers can relinquish after 24 hours after which there is no going back. Father’s have limited rights in Utah. They have to sign an affidative declaring they are the father and if they had sex with someone that is enough notification that the woman could be pregnant. There have been a couple high profile cases of father’s who wanted their babies but did not jump through Utah’s rules and lost their rights. Some of those cases are still in the court system. You can look at Utah adoption laws for the specifics. There are also quite a few adoption agencies in Utah that bring women in from other states to deliver because they then fall under Utah’s stricter termination rights.

The letters are certainly a point of controversy in adoption.  The practice of pre-birth matching is controversial.  It provides an opportunity for both fraud and coercion.  All the posts you read here about prospective adoptive parents meeting a pregnant woman with the intention of adopting her child only to have her decide to parent at the last minute are the result of prebirth matching.  Maybe they paid her bills during part of her pregnancy.  Maybe they told all their friends and had a big baby shower.  Or maybe the child’s mother did relinquish only to realize (too late) that it was a mistake.

When adoption is transformed into the family planning equivalent of an internet dating site, there are bound to be hasty decisions and broken hearts. 

Personally, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to support stricter, more ethical adoption practices than those currently allowed.  I definitely support changing laws in ways that would better protect all three parties: the mother, the child, and prospective adopters.  The letters are just a small part of the picture.

CUB is just one organization that has a stance against the practice:

http://www.cubirthparents.org/home/where-we-stand/position-papers/pre-birth-matching-and-meeting/

Many of those who are considered to be “adoption protesters” are actually working toward reform and change within the adoption industry. As a potential adoptive parent, you should be aware that an adoptee’s birth certificate is falsified upon the finalization of the adoption. The names of the child’s original parents will be removed and your name inserted as though you created and gave birth to the child. The original birth certificate is then sealed away and the adoptee has no legal right to obtain it, unless you adopt in one of the very few states that allows an adult adoptee access. Also, there is no indication on the falsified birth certificate that an adoption even took place. So legally, the adoptee has no right to even know that he or she had been adopted.

As a New York adoptee, you probably already know this as you have a falsified birth certificate. You are also currently barred from obtaining you factual record of birth. Simply because you were adopted. All non-adoptees in New York can have a copy of their accurate birth record just by asking for it. But you cannot. This is the industry at work. Are you willing to put thousands of dollars (another questionable industry “quirk”) into an industry that promotes the falsification of legal documents and denial of the original document to the very person to which it pertains? Just some food for thought.

This is what many of the “adoption protesters” take issue with. Perhaps you might find this a valid issue to consider before adopting.

Bailey’s mom - you might like to go back to Mrsfeverfew’s site and read her latest post - she answers all your questions that you have asked in this thread.

I would say that my own views are very similar to those that she outlines in her latest post.

Below is the LDS 1st Presidency letter 2002:

“THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS OFFICE OF THE FIRST PRESIDENCY 47 EAST SOUTH TEMPLE STREET. SALT LA.KE CITY. UTAH 84150-1000

June 26, 2002

To:

General Authorities and the following leaders in the United States and Canada: AreaAuthority Seventies; Stake, Mission, and District Presidents; Bishops and BranchPresidents; Auxiliary LeadersDear Brethren and Sisters:Adoption and Unwed Parents

(To be read in high priests group, elder’s quorum,
and Relief Society meetings only.)

Parents and priesthood and auxiliary leaders are encouraged to teach members to live chaste and virtuous lives and prepare to receive the ordinances of the temple. Children sealed to parents have claim upon the blessings of the gospel beyond what others are entitled to receive.  When a man and woman conceive a child out of wedlock, every effort should be made to encourage them to marry. When the probability of a successful marriage is unlikely due to age orother circumstances, unwed parents should be counseled to place the child for adoption through LDS Family Services to ensure that the baby will be sealed to temple-worthy parents. Adoption is an unselfish, loving decision that blesses both the birth parents and the child in this life and ineternity.

Birth parents who do not marry should not be counseled to keep the infant as a condition of repentance or out of a sense of obligation to care for one’s own. Unwed parents are not able to provide the blessings of the sealing covenant. Further, they are generally unable to provide a stable,nurturing environment which is so essential for the baby’s well-being. Unmarried parents should give prayerful consideration to the best interests of the child and the blessings that can come to aninfant who is sealed to a mother and father.

Sincerely your brethren,”

Wow, interesting reading. I didn’t know the US adoption laws were still primarily based on closed adoptions.

I’m in New Zealand and here all adopted children have access to their birth parent information from age 18 onwards.

“Wow, interesting reading. I didn’t know the US adoption laws were still primarily based on closed adoptions.

I’m in New Zealand and here all adopted children have access to their birth parent information from age 18 onwards”

I am a Kiwi by birth and I was able to get my OBC in 1987.

I’m a US domestic Baby Scoop Era adoptee in my late 40s.  I am both surprised and embarrassed that my country has yet to unseal records.  If you would have told me in 1979 that by 2012 only six states* allowed unconditional access to birth records, I wouldn’t have believed it.  I definitely applaud ya’ll in the land down under, though!

Unfortunately, thanks to industry lobbyists, most of the “reform” in US adoption has been modeled after a free market.  Hey, the free market is great.  I’m all for it when it comes to the exchange of property.  People are not property.

*Actually, I think it’s 7 now with RI.

“When the probability of a successful marriage is unlikely due to age orother circumstances, unwed parents should be counseled to place the child for adoption through LDS Family Services to ensure that the baby will be sealed to temple-worthy parents”

2002 LDS
not all that different to
1962 mainstream churches

I cannot help but become sensitive, I was adopted in Canada and I don’t have a forged birth certificate, I have my OBS, legal name change documents and what I consider my “real” birth certificate from my adoptive parents who raised me with more love and respect that I could ever have imagined throughout my life.
1-Unsealed records are wrong, everyone has the right to know who they are and where they came from. I am totally be an advocate for that.
2-DBM letters and the term DBM are both disgusting but there is nothing negative in writing an introduction letter to a woman who MAY be considering adoption in an ethical way
3-Adoption should only take place in an ethical way
3-Thank you “Mrsfeverfew” for taking the time to clarify my misconceptions. I took a few minutes out of my workday to quickly read part of your blog and I misinterpreted it. Everyone has a right to their views but this was a bit extreme for me (I found it contradicting as you were hurt and betrayed by LDS but now you are part of it - again I should go back and read it before making any comments or judgements). I am not able to conceive and all I hope for is to be able to give back the love that I was given. I do not plan to take a child from an innocent woman but if a mother chooses not to raise her child why should I not be blessed with the gift of providing a better life and loving that child. There are so many people that give birth to children they do not want or did not plan for. My birthmother was 15 and I am greatful everyday for the parents she gave me because she was not able to take care of me. If I had some time on my hands, I would feel it is much more productive to go out and help others (such as orphans and children in shelters) rather than blogging. Actions speak louder than words. My apologies if I offended anyone.

“I found it contradicting as you were hurt and betrayed by LDS but now you are part of it”

I think she is saying she was hurt and betrayed by LDSFS and some LDS elders but that is separate to her being LDS.  It would be like being Catholic and feeling betrayed by a Catholic agency and some Catholic priests. 

“do not want or did not plan for”
Just with this, sometimes people lump “did not want” and “did not plan for” as if they are the same thing. 
With all the emphasis on positive adoption languate, I sometimes whether, rather than saying “unwanted pregnancy” and “unplanned pregnancy” whether it might be more accurate to say “pregnancy in unwanted circumstances” and “pregnancy in unplanned circumstances”.  The child him/herself may actually end up very wanted (this can be the case regardless of whether the parents are married/single, raising or relinquishing the child). 

Just out of interest, Bailey’smom, have you met your bfamily?  You don’t have to answer, I’m just asking out of curiosity.

Did you see her reply to your post here on her blog?
http://letterstomsfeverfew.wordpress.com/

Understood - your language is more appropriate“, pregnancy in unwanted circumstances” and “pregnancy in unplanned circumstances”.  But for the few people who truly do not want to raise their child, is it wrong to relinguish that child and have him/her be raised by a family that can love and provide for them? I am just getting negative feelings on adoption and it upset me. Everyone is being very literal and I am taking it to heart. Re my bfamily, I have confirmed that my bmother and bfather are deceased. I did see the reply from mdfeverfew, I responded above admitting that I did not read the full blog. We are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs, I think and hope that everyone here is trying to only do good. I came to this site for positive information and it took a turn in a different direction, which thank you to everyone here is a sad reality.

“But for the few people who truly do not want to raise their child, is it wrong to relinguish that child and have him/her be raised by a family that can love and provide for them?”

Not at all - because of the way we do things here in Australia, (where I grew up and live now (NZ is where I was born), we can be a little bit more sure of that here than over in the US.  That is part of what Msfeverfew and the other online first moms are trying to do, i.e. making sure that only those who truly don’t want to or truly can’t raise their child are the only ones who do so.  I personally believe the best way to do this is not to overwhelm the emom with parenting/adoption options first thing but to help them to help themselves to improve their lot so that they are in the best possible place to make that truly serious decision - they may still chose adoption but , whatever their choice, they will also hopefully be in a relatively better place by the time of the birth than at the time of initial counselling. 

It is harder in the US to know which agencies do that best but, if you are trying to chose an agency that treats its emoms ethically, one can get an idea by looking at the agency’s “unplanned pregnancy” pages - if they are trying to do a real hard sell on adoption, you can get a good idea of what their counselling methods will be. 

Btw it is sad to see your bparents passed way so young (as your bmom was less than 56), hopefully, it wasn’t from some inheritable condition - I would want to find that out if it were me.  My own bmom died under the age of 40, which is one of the reasons I made contact, and on that score alone, it was worth knowing what she passed away from.  I now also have the bonus of a lovely extended family and it is comforting to hear that my bmom was a lovely kind lady, much loved by her family, though it is heartbreaking that she passed away so young. 

Btw I consider both my mothers to be “real” and both my fathers to be “real”.  In regards to my bmom, I have a fair idea of why she relinquished (the usual lack of resources (thankfully that has improved in todays society); counselling to seal the deal (ironically today’s counselling methods have given an insight into how that was back then, though less of a push was needed back then), shame and societal/religious pressure (something Msfeverfew understands as an LDS bmom and, judging by the above 2002 1st presidency letter, still continues today) - however, I am pretty sure she didn’t relinquish just because she didn’t want to parent per se.

I find the comment “If I had some time on my hands, I would feel it is much more productive to go out and help others (such as orphans and children in shelters) rather than blogging. Actions speak louder than words” interesting.  Actions speak louder than words when one pays thousands of dollars to an agency for a newborn rather than adopting a child who truly needs a home and a parent.  For example, a child from foster care.  By paying for a child, people drive the unethical practices of adoption agencies.
I took my daughter to a “christian” agency for “counseling” when she got pregnant.  The only “counseling” they do is showing you how inadequate you are for your child.  They don’t explain the overwhelming grief you will have when that child is relinquished.  They don’t tell you that you’ll never really move on.  You always wonder about your child.  They don’t tell you adoptees are over represented in mental health services.  They don’t tell you that there is no such thing as an legal open adoption.  They don’t tell you that 80% of adoptions close within a year of finalizing.  So, a lot of people out in this world are not as positive about adoption because they have been scarred beyond belief by its effects.  The ones with the real power to change that are adoptive parents and prospective adoptive parents.  The rest of us blog our protests.  And yes work in orphanages and with disadvantaged children as well as helping young mothers keep their babies.

“By paying for a child, people drive the unethical practices of adoption agencies”, not all of us are fortunate enough to have children and there are many ethical agencies (not Christian) that exist. I work at shelters and with young mothers who want to keep their babies (7 days a week-endless hours) and I also see newborns that are left in dumpsters and on police station doorsteps every day - so there are many natural mothers that do not deserve to keep their child. “adoptees are over represented in mental health services”, that is funny because I am an adoptee and I have never been in any type of mental health facility. I take pride in knowing that my adoptive parents treated me like they gave birth to me knowing that someone else could not care for me. They were blessed with a child that they could not conceive. This was God’s plan for our family. Now I hope to give that love to a child who cannot be taken care of and I am criticized for it - how dare anyone make this judgement? I realize many sites that I have been linked to are just extremists and radicals who have nothing else to do with their time except complain, complain, complain. It seems as if no one writing on here has an educational level passed the 6th grade. I am done here because I have a life.  Let’s all move on.

I appreciate your passion and conviction you demonstrate in your response, however where your argument falls short is that you appear to generalize your experience for that of all who have gone through the process…that is your folly.  Just as you mention that you devote a large part of yourself to helping women who want to be mothers you also acknowledge that you have witnessed the opposite. 

Therefore you must also acknowledge that just because you have personally had a positive experience as an adoptee, that many others have not. Just because you have been blessed with mental health through your experience, others have not….and there is evidence that many do not.

That you feel this is God’s plan for you, it could be just as easily interpreted that His plan was not for you to adopt, but to do the work you are already doing.

Finally, to demand that you not be judged in the middle of your judgement of others is at best hypocritical (and your misuse of the word “passed” does not help your credibility).

In short, this is not just about you and your experiences, but a collection of experiences of many others that are contradictory to the image that the adoption establishment wants to project….after all not many organizations can make as much money or be as successful if their image is tarnished.

It seems to me, BaileysMom, that you have asked a question and not liked the answers you have received and now, as you say, “I am done here because I have a life. Let’s all move on.” How incredibly dismissive to the people who took the time to provide information to you about something you did not understand. You were looking for justification to ignore people you deem anti-adoption, you were looking for people to say “oh, just ignore those crazy people and go ahead and adopt”. Well, the fact of the matter is that there are people who believe that adoption needs to be changed, that it is a human rights issue and they blog about it to educate people like you.

Everyone here is pretty much generalizing on so many levels. Are you an adoptee? Is your daughter your biological child? Hypocritical & generalizing? My referring to God’s plan is something that already took place. Who is anyone to say that God’s plan is not for someone else to adopt? Easy for someone who has given birth to say. Credibility? The comments here lost credibility a long time ago. It is so easy to become a victim and too many of us are giving into it, it is lazy. This is the 21st century, let’s be strong and again, let’s move on.

I appreciate many of the answers received and I thank you but many are just here to preach. Unethical adoption does need to be changed but too many people here are making it seem like most adoption is unethical.

“They don’t tell you adoptees are over represented in mental health services.”

This may or may not be true. Different studies have shown different results.

“They don’t tell you that there is no such thing as an legal open adoption.”

That’s not true either. Some states do have enforceable open adoption agreements. Most do not. Expectant parents do need to be told the truth about these agreements and what they mean. 

“They don’t tell you that 80% of adoptions close within a year of finalizing.”

Also, not true. There aren’t any reliable statistics kept about private domestic adoptions, so any statistic quoting how many open adoptions close is going to be false.

I also didn’t pay for my children. I paid for the services people rendered to help me find my children and I paid for travel to bring my children home.

It is important to note the difference between being anti-adoption and pro-adoption reform. Recently, there was a protest in Chicago for adoptees to be able to obtain their original birth certificates. Many of these people are not anti-adoption; they were protesting the practice of sealing records (and I believe they’re right to protest - records should never have been sealed and should not be sealed in the future).

It is also important to realize that adoption isn’t all hearts and flowers, and that there are hard realities involved. It’s always good to get different opinions and read stories from others who have been involved with adoption in different ways.

My hubby is an adoptee and an ap (and the best dad ever imo);  after we adopted, i found some anti adoption sites and it stilll makes me reel sometimes.  honestly, it is a loss when bio parents choose not to or cannot parent a kid….unfortunately that sometimes is the case.  and if you live here you realize too many kids suffer at the hands of bio parents.  in any event, many prospective bms will appreciate that you are an adoptee..i wouldn’t let “kooks” (as my DH affectionately calls anti adopt folks) get u down.  there are millions of adoptees in this country, but I have only seen a small percentage of anti adoption bloggers or commenters….and then you have to question why they need to be soooo..annoying.  they usually say they want to “protect” future adoptees (hahahah…people they will never meet).  good luck

“I would feel it is much more productive to go out and help others (such as orphans and children in shelters) rather than blogging.”

“I realize many sites that I have been linked to are just extremists and radicals who have nothing else to do with their time except complain, complain, complain. It seems as if no one writing on here has an educational level passed the 6th grade.”

Suddenly, I feel as if I need to print a resume.  I’ve been to college, I promise.  I even won an award from my governor for volunteer service with children in the foster care system. 

“It is so easy to become a victim and too many of us are giving into it, it is lazy. This is the 21st century, lets be strong and again, lets move on.”

Yes, let’s.  This is an article from the 20th century, but one of the authors is, in the 21st century, a federal appellate judge.  According to his wiki, he’s the most cited legal scholar of the 20th century.  Good for him.  Read his vision of adoption then try to sleep at night:

http://sbm.temple.edu/ccg/documents/adoptionLandesPosner.pdf

What exactly is standing between folks like him and an unregulated baby trade?  People whose lives have been touched by adoption and who have been insulted more severely than accusations of a 6th grade education.  By the way, I believe you meant “past the 6th grade”.

Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, there are ethical issues with adoption.  Furthermore, there are people and organizations who work very hard to remove what safeguards are in place.  If no one stood against them, adoption really would be the free market enterprise envisioned in the above cited article.  That article is just plain and simply chilling.  I would like to think that no one here would support that model of adoption.  I have enough faith in my fellow man to believe that the majority of people involved in adoption, if presented with the facts, will support ethical laws.  If that makes me a radical and extremist, okay whatever.  I’m sure I’ve been called worse. 

All anyone is asking is for some ethics applied to the manner in which mothers and infants are treated.  If you feel it’s ethical now, leave it at that.  You needn’t throw baseless accusations toward those who disagree.

jeanne, i support open records…and i encouraged my dh to find his birth mom…we also are in an oa.  i think the open records movement would get a huge boost from the MILLIONS of adoptees here…if it weren’t tied to the anti adoption “movement.”  my dh supports open records and also thinks MORE adoptions should occur (based on his life/work experience).  It seems a huge problem that some activist adult adoptees cannot separate the two….what do you think?

“and there are many ethical agencies (not Christian) that exist.”
Yes, there are ethical agencies both Christian and non-Christian - that is the reason I said above about looking at the “unplanned pregnancy pages” because that will help give you an idea.  Stand alone agencies whose reason d’etre is adoption must have a certain number of adoptions to go through to survive so, as ethical as they may try to be, there is a bit of a conflict of interest which is why it is better to go through agencies where adoption is an auxillary service rather than the reason for existence. In fact, many of those human service agencies are Christian agencies (btw all our NGO agencies dealing with adoption in our state are Christian).  I do have issues with the LDS proclamation on adoption because I don’t believe a woman should have to relinquish her child for that child to be fully accepted by the church - the bit about an illegitimate child unable to receive the full blessings of the LDS church seems rather against Jesus’ teachings.

“I take pride in knowing that my adoptive parents treated me like they gave birth to me knowing that someone else could not care for me.”
I take pride in the fact that my parents were very honest and open about everything re adoption and handled things well so that we grew up thinking of our bparents as neither devils or angels but as human beings.  I would say I was interested in a fairly low key way about meeting my bparents, a fairly healthy attitude one would think.  I am proud of the way that my mum has handled my meeting bfamily - I think we all realise that just as she is capable of loving 4 children, we children are capable of loving 4 parents

I am not going to say that I take pride in knowing that my adoptive parents treated me like they gave birth to me, to be honest, I think my parents would find that insulting and be sad for me that I would feel that I needed to be proud about them treating me like they gave birth to me, as they would consider it every child’s duerather than something I was less deserving of..  Presumably also you are not expecting your child to be proud of you for treating them like you gave birth to them. 
 
“I realize many sites that I have been linked to are just extremists and radicals who have nothing else to do with their time except complain, complain, complain.”

Wow, I’ve never come across any sites like that.  Then again, I tend not to judge websites/blogs on first glance - eg I’m glad I gave this site more than a quick glance (the first thread I came across certainly made me reel with shock) as I have grown to respect a few of the APs on here as well as my fellow adoptees.

“It is also important to realize that adoption isn’t all hearts and flowers, and that there are hard realities involved. It’s always good to get different opinions and read stories from others who have been involved with adoption in different ways”
Very true rredhead which is why I try to read blogs from all parts of the triad and all views (in fact, many of my concerns have come from reading very pro-adoption websites of APs, bmoms and adoptees)

“but I have only seen a small percentage of anti adoption bloggers or commenters….and then you have to question why they need to be soooo..annoying. they usually say they want to “protect” future adoptees (hahahah…people they will never meet).”
I keep hearing about these anti-adoption bloggers mamallama- perhaps you might like to tell me who they are?  As others have pointed out, there is a difference between anti-adoption and pro-adoption reform - sadly, many pro-adoption reformists are dismissed as anti-adoption. 

“i think the open records movement would get a huge boost from the MILLIONS of adoptees here…if it weren’t tied to the anti adoption “movement.”

It is more that the adoption industry itself is against open records and they are the ones with the big bucks. 

“my dh supports open records and also thinks MORE adoptions should occur (based on his life/work experience).”

I think we are all for adoption for those women and babies who truly need it.  This is why I believe in personalised general counselling so that women and their babies get what is in both their best interest rather than the type of counselling that is more aimed at fulfilling what others believe to be in society’s best interest.

Just out of interest Baileysmom, - who is Bailey - I am assuming this is the name you plan to call your child?

“What exactly is standing between folks like him and an unregulated baby trade?”

Hopefully all those who get the screaming heebie-jeebies after reading it regardless of whether they’ve been touched by adoption. I’d argue that the view that human beings shouldn’t be treated as commodities has a broader scope than just the world of adoption.

On the plus side, looking at those who have cited the article-thank you, Google Scholar-it does seem that Landes and Posner 1978 is most often used as a marker of an extreme view (full free-market adoption). I haven’t gone through all the papers though, obviously, but it was good to see the field pushed back against it.

Interestingly, there is a 1987 article by Posner himself seeming to back away from the 1978 article you linked to.  Couldn’t get the whole thing without shelling out $15 though, so I’m getting that from the abstract and skimming a couple of review articles over morning coffee. 

Thanks very much for linking to that. Really, really interesting and challenging.

mamallama,

I do agree that open records laws stand a much better chance of passing when that is the only matter being addressed in the legislation.  Unfortunately, even lawmakers tend to lump all adoption issues together.

My first political experience with adoption was back in college as an intern.  I was assigned to adoption by a really wonderful state senator who was of a different political party than my affiliation.  Once she learned I was an adoptee, that was my assignment.  I went into that session not nearly as knowledgeable as I fancied myself and left it with a different perspective. 

So long as adoption is limited to a “save the babies” mentality, the civil rights of those babies, even when they grow to become adults, will be an afterthought.  Saving babies is fine.  I’m not opposed to saving babies.  I understand that some parents aren’t proficient at parenting.  But there are many aspects of adoption that have nothing to do with saving babies and everything to do with transferring human property.  If that were not so, there would be no need to fight for the right to access one’s own records at the age of 18. 

I really haven’t seen an anti-adoption movement.  I’ve seen a movement against unethical adoption practices.  Australia is a nation that has responded positively to arguments against unethical practices as katiesue pointed out.  Here in the US, our child welfare system is just, well, embarrassing.  Our system is so broken that the only right we really recognize is the right of the child to get out of the system.  We call it permanency.  We can do better than that.  The only responsibility the government truly bears without any question is the responsibility to protect individual rights.  If we place that responsibility first even in the child welfare system, we’ll have a better system than we have now.  We can’t wait until the child is an adult to consider the civil rights of that individual.

“On the plus side, looking at those who have cited the article-thank you, Google Scholar-it does seem that Landes and Posner 1978 is most often used as a marker of an extreme view (full free-market adoption). I haven’t gone through all the papers though, obviously, but it was good to see the field pushed back against it.”

Yes, definitely.  Puts a whole new spin on accusations of being a radical and an extremist, doesn’t it?

Aside from the humans as commodities issue, I draw two rather daunting conclusions from the article.  First, that people with that train of thought can hold a spot on the federal bench.  I personally find that really disturbing.  And second, that instead of blind faith in an institution, we should each have a firm ethical line that we take personal responsibility never to cross.  We cannot entrust people in positions of political power to tell us where to find this line. 

And you’re welcome.  It is challenging.

BaileysMom said, “It seems as if no one writing on here has an educational level passed the 6th grade.”

This is coming from the person who misspelled “Morman” and is using the word “passed” incorrectly?

Hmmm…I guess all those letters after my name don’t really mean anything then.  I wonder what BaileysMom thinks PhD stands for? Professional Hamburger Dispenser (would you like fries with that?) Or maybe Pizza Hut Driver? Or how about Professional Hair Dresser (it could be that, since I *did* graduate from cosmetology school back in ‘93). Oh wait, maybe BaileysMom thinks the PhD after my name means Post Hole Digger. Or Pour Him (a) Drink? Or Presbyterian Hospital of Dallas?

Not sure what BaileysMom thinks “PhD” means, but what I *do* know is I did get “passed” the 6th grade and have the diplomas to prove it.  It is rather disingenuous to belittle another person’s intelligence simply because they are not telling you what you want to hear.

M., the blog author who BaileysMom thought was “anti-adoption”

I think there is so much good information here.  Thank you for taking the time to educate and inform.

The statement below answers the original question. Since I don’t know how to spell, I had to search for a SIMPLE answer and this one is just perfect.
“Hurt people hurt people. These extremists fight and argue that women are coerced into choosing adoption and they are fighting vehemently to find pregnant moms who are considering adoption so they can talk them out of it. They are vicious and nasty; attacking birthmothers/prospective birthmothers in the same coercive manner they say adoption agencies use to gain a buck.”

Baileysmom since you are new to the adoption world in a broader sense then your personal experience in being an adoptee.
I think you would be best served doing research and trying to understand WHY someone would feel so strongly. 

It is hard to undo years of conditioning and no one likes it when something they thought they knew about - becomes apparent they know so little about.  The people here who have answered your questions are not trying to hurt you- they are trying to educate you on a subject you do not know and asked about.

If a expectant mother could be talked out of such a decision when given all the facts maybe it was not the right choice to be placing in the first place.  No one that I know of that has posted here to answer your question is actively doing that.

There are a lot of resources out there.  This blog I am going to link is written by an adoptive mother who is also an adoptee. She has a lot of things to say and I think you would find it interesting and educational as well as a little easier to take at this point in your journey.

http://www.rebeccahawkes.com/

I encourage you to open your mind and truly investigate adoption practices and the reasons why people could feel strongly enough about it as to take the time to answer your questions.

Hi Baileysmom,

Nice to meet you.  I am also an adoptee and an adoptive mommy to two precious little girls that God blessed us with.  As an adoptee, I haven’t had perfectly wonderful adoption/reunion experiences, and I don’t think I always had a really positive attitude toward adoption.  I don’t know about when I was growing up… I felt special, yet different and was conscious of being adopted.  I think I also struggled some about being an adoptive mommy (I think that was because of things that people had said about adoption in ignorance over the years to me, and feeling that maybe I wouldn’t be considered my children’s “real mother”). I feel that God grew my heart for adoption, and then I entered into the adoption world a second time. 

I’m a Christian and feel that adoption was God’s plan for my life, being an adoptee and an adoptive mommy.  I feel positive toward adoption, (especially for myself), but still can have some worries about the “real mom” thing as an adoptive mommy.  I wanted to share these things about myself with you, but wanted to also share with you that as we were considering/starting the adoption process I ran into a site very negative towards adoption… I think it was “exiled mothers” (mothers exploited by adoption). It was very distressing for me to read also, and I wrote to them.  It is hard to shake such things off when you are an adoptive parent (or wanting to be one) and think positive about adoption, especially when you are also an adoptee yourself.  (My own birthmother was on a list with other birthmothers from back a long time ago, and they got mad at her because she didn’t have the same attitude about things as they did)

Anyway, things were different back then (in the 50’s, 60’s, and I think even in the 70’s) and I do think many birthmothers were not treated right and pressured about adoption, and some coerced.  A good book to read that takes you back to that time is “The Girls Who Went Away”... it will give you compassion and understanding for them and what they went through, and if you already feel that toward them, it will give you more.  Many/some birthmothers from back then (I don’t know how many) still feel very bad about their experience, and there are also birthmothers nowadays that may not have been treated ethically in their adoption process, and I think we have to try to be understanding of them and their feelings as much as it may make us feel bad.

Some adoptees also don’t feel positive about adoption (which is a little easier for me), and each one has their own experiences/feelings.  As adoptees I think we have to try and be understanding of each other, as no one has gone through the same thing with our adoptive/birth families, or may feel the same things.  Adoptees/birth mothers advocating for good change in adoption in the U.S. is a good thing, sometimes we may not agrees with the areas of change or how they want to change them, but examining the processes to improve them and make them more ethical are good. 

I haven’t read all the posts in this thread, but wanted to write in to you and let you know that I am in your same place (as an adoptee/adoptive mommy) and can understand feeling distressed when reading about or encountering others who are/seem negative towards adoption.  Hugs to you…

Kris

I don’t understand why it is so wrong for someone to explain to a woman that she has options other than adoption for her baby. Adoption was only ever meant to be in the best interests of a child of their mother or extended family were incapable of caring for them. It has since become a business & agencies do the opposite of what you have quoted, they prey on vulnerable women & convince them to place their babies.

“There are corrupt adoption agencies. There are agencies out there for the baby and the money – giving little concern to life implications and/or birthparents. There are agencies that will use coercion just to make a buck; and all the while possibly assuming they know what is best in every circumstance. This is not true, nor is it good business practice. There is also no doubt that there needs to be adoption reform on so many levels. Adoption is not novelty, commodity, or the new black. It is a woman’s life, at a major crossroads. It is a baby’s future hanging in the balance”

The same person whom you quoted also said the above.  I agree with what she says here. 

I’m not into talking people into or out of adoption.  All I hope is that all women considering adoption get true counselling - not just re their options but re their personal situation.  I personally feel that a woman needs in the best (relatively speeaking) place possible before even considering her parenting options.  Adoption may still be the best option but it needs to be a decision made when she is in the best possible place to do so.  It doesn’t matter whether she is leaning towards parenting or adoption at the beginning - she needs proper counselling because relinquishing a child is a serious thing - as the above lady says “It is a woman’s life, at a major crossroads. It is a baby’s future hanging in the balance”.  If your child’s bmom has had proper counselling, then good on her and you.

My observation from looking at many agency websites is that the pages intended for the expectant mother’s perusal are often “selling” adoption to said expectant mother.  This is where I worry about what their actual counselling is like.  That is why I said back a long time ago in this thread that when deciding on an agency, one should read the pages intended for the emoms to read.  The emom pages should be more about what the agency offers a woman who is considering adoption, it should not be about selling adoption to them.

Btw I note the above blogger (whose quote Bailey posted) says this later before quoting your quote:

“Lately, I’ve been encountering push-back from anti-adoption groups whose main argument is that adoption practices are corrupt and children were meant to be with their bio parents only. Period”

I would actually like to see these “posts” she is talking about.  This is because I have yet to come across a blogger that feels that children should ALWAYS be with their biological parents, I have yet to see blogger who doesn’t accept that many children DO need to be removed from their parents. 

However, many people do have problems with adoption practices in the modern world and a lot of discussion is about how to best to go ahead with reform.  Just because people have concerns about adoption practices, it doesn’t mean that “children were meant to be with their bio parents only. Period”. 

In regards to whether adoption practices are corrupt or not, I am rather more kinder.  I actually think a lot of adoption practices in the US are dangerously naive - they are often done with the greatest of good intentions.  However, we all know that saying - the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Just remember also that many of us have problems with the adoption INDUSTRY. 

Many people do think the adoption industry is just about money.  Again, I think itis more than that.  I think you will find that the “higher ups” in adoption believe adoption to be a solution to society’s problems.  They don’t care about the individual per se, they just want society to fit their ideals.  My problem with the main programme provided by the main adoption organisation is that really the suitability of the person to parent or not is irrelevant - it is more about reforming the thinking of the client iin the hope that they will consider adoption rather than whether adoption is the right thing for that particular woman at all. 

Here is the program for anyone who wants to do it.  I actually realise that many of you will do it and think “wow, this is a wonderful program” and on the face of it, it “sounds” good, however, to me I think it is a dangerous program to be used as a frontline counselling program.

https://www.adoptioncouncil.org/training/birthparent-counseling-training.html

I do believe that the program has the greatest of intentions and does mean well.  I do also get the impression that they are assuming that the emom will get full counselling re parenting as well. 

However, the problem to me is that even when I’ve looked at very PRO-adoption bmom blogs, it seems from reading some of the things they say that the only parenting counselling they got is the “consider your options” discussion on parenting as listed in this program. Btw I deliberately read pro-adoption bmom blogs because I want to hear their point of view.

Again, I have concerns about the adoption INDUSTRY.  I actually feel that most prospective adoptive parents want to do the best by expectant mothers but by golly the industry isn’t making it easy for them to do so.  I know that prospective adoptive parents often feel coerced themselves - I know plenty of HAPs on other forums who have felt uncomfortable about things their agencies/attorneys etc have said.  Actually, though I may seem like I am attacking agencies - I do think they are better than many attorneys, facilitators and private adoption. 

I know that many on here believe me to be an extremist.  I’m not.  I just feel from reading these forums and others and blogs and pretty well anything out there on ALL sides of the triad that in many cases, the boundaries seem to be irretrievably blurred.  To me, the means doesn’t justify the ends.

“The statement below answers the original question. Since I don’t know how to spell, I had to search for a SIMPLE answer and this one is just perfect.

“Hurt people hurt people. These extremists fight and argue that women are coerced into choosing adoption and they are fighting vehemently to find pregnant moms who are considering adoption so they can talk them out of it. They are vicious and nasty; attacking birthmothers/prospective birthmothers in the same coercive manner they say adoption agencies use to gain a buck.” “

Btw if you are implying that M from “letterstomrsfeverfew” is doing this, then you are WAY OFF.  I have never seen her ever treat any rasonable expectant mom, bmoms, adoptees or APs with anything with respect. Every now and then a bmom, adoptee or AP will post on her blog and attack her and she ends up having to defend herself.

If you are implying anyone on here is like that, I’d like you to tell me who:
Jeanne
Carolrn
Dlynd
JulieGM
Milasmama
Choosetocare
Kickabout
EST
Twicethelove
Eri
rredhead
mamallama
Oliviasgma
Valencyspeaks
me (katiesue)

There have been many varying replies from the above posters but no-one has been anywhere near as nasty as you are implying. In fact, most insults towards others have come from yourself.

Geez leave this woman alone.  I tried so hard to stay out of this.  I took her initial post as NOT calling anyone out who regularly posts here but saying I’m coming here because I read something that scared me.  I believe 15 posts down she attempted to apologize and admitted to misinterpreting mrsfeverfews blog.  That didn’t stop valrncyspeaks from ridiculing baileysmom a few posts up.  And to answer her question… Yes there are people who are 100% against adoption.  Or at least one person because someone admitted in a post to me as being 100% against adoption even step parent adoption.  Oh yeah and she said I was a baby stealer.  I believe those posts have been deleted.

I don’t understand why her initial post can’t be interpreted from the point of view as someone who was shocked and hurt and seeking clarification.  Considering she is adopted I imagine seeing this new s perspective was indeed shocking.  I hope if my son ever has questions that he is treated better then baileysmom was treated by some ( not all) posters.

I’m so sad at the loss of what I thought was a safe place.  I would love to get some perspective on our recent visit with my son’s birth family but I feel like I have nowhere to turn and am scared something I post will be misinterpreted or copied onto another site where I would have no way to defend myself.
 

“I actually feel that most prospective adoptive parents want to do the best by expectant mothers but by golly the industry isn’t making it easy for them to do so.”

That is a very good point! I could go on for pages about this, but it would be somewhat off-topic.

I have actually seen at least two blogs that proclaim that adoption shouldn’t exist at all. That children belong with their bio parents in all but the most extreme situations. However, the authors and commenters maintain that those situations hardly ever exist, but are manufactured by social services. If they really do exist, then biology trumps all and the children should be placed with bio family. I don’t know what they think should be done if there isn’t any bio family.

I don’t remember the precise name of one of the blogs, but it may very well have been Exiled Mothers. It was something like that. The other I won’t mention by name, just that it’s a fairly well-liked blog by those who are truly anti-adoption and by some reformers who can apparently overlook the blog’s completely negative, black and white stance that adoption is bad and, therefore, biology is good.

http://www.adoptivefamiliescircle.com/groups/topic/Private_adoption_vs_Agency/

I thought I remembered the perfect example of people who try to convince expectant moms to parent just as strongly as adoption agency try to convince them to place…or however that was worded above.  When I looked the comment had disappeared.  About ten posts down there is a reference to it but the comment itself is gone.

In regards to the original post, I can understand how Baileysmom felt when she came across strong anti-adoption sentiment, It can be upsetting and unexpected in the beginning… because when someone is an adoptee who decides to adopt children, the decision is not only personal about building your family, it is also personal about you because you were adopted.  You can think…but I’m adopted (adoption is personal to me) and I don’t feel that way, and you feel bad because the other person (also part of the adoption triad) does.  So I guess what I’m saying is that it can be especially poignant for an adoptee who feels positive about adoption and hopes to adopt (or has adopted children) to read strong feelings against adoption by birthmothers, or other adoptees.  I remember being genuinely upset by what I read, but now I accept that there are others who are also a part of the adoption triad that don’t feel the same way as I do, and that each one’s feelings are valid.

It seems to me that any comments made against the OP were made after she attacked the commenters on this thread. She did admit her misinterpretation of the blog she originally mentioned but that was all.
As for feeling unsafe here because a few adoptees share their opinions and they differ from yours…my goodness, how sad. Perhaps one day if your adopted child shares our feelings you might start to understand where we are coming from.

Thank you for the link Katiesue- I am going to do it at a friends house as I do not have sound for some reason on my computer!

Erisycamore. Your comment is exactly the type of thing I’m trying to protect myself from.  It is sad that a strangers words on the internet has the power to hurt but they do.  Does it make you feel good to know you hurt my feelings?

It’s not about differing opinions its about people who base responses on one word or sentence and not on the whole of the person or original post.  Its about copying and pasting fragments of sentences onto other websites without the posters knowledge or approval.

I do not deserve to be shamed or called out for not feeling comfortable publicly sharing intimate details of my son and his birth family.  Based on that, I do not deserved the implication that there is something flawed in my relationship with my son as your last sentence implies.

Yes, in this thread there has been name calling and inappropriate behavior from the op as well as others.  When a person is stressed and emotional and pushed that tends to happen. 

Please excuse my spelling,  I do not have a PhD.  Please do not copy or paste anything that I have written here or elsewhere onto another site.  Please do not read anything I have written here or elsewhere onto video or Utube.

Well this here “negative crazy, communist sociopathic conspiracy theorising malcontent jerk” wouldn’t know anything about being called nasty things on these forums so I will just have to take your word for it that it hurts, gggfier.

Katiesue,  As a Christian I want to love everyone.  As a human I am a broken sinner.  Please accept my apology if I have ever written something that caused you pain.  I am sorry.

I honestly did not intend for my words to hurt you gqqfier. I really do think it’s sad that if you want to share your story, you don’t feel safe doing it here. I wasn’t trying to imply anything about your relationship with your son, I was simply suggesting that as an adoptee, he might one day share our feelings & that having read adoptee comments here in the past might help you understand how he feels. I never suggested you had to share anything, but you said you didn’t feel safe doing so & I assumed that meant you wanted to. Have no fear, I will never quote you, here or anywhere else & this will be the last thing of yours that I read.

Gggfier, the point of my post was just to point out that the majority of adoptees have been attacked by others on these forums and that it is hurtful too.  All the words I used were ones that have been used by others on these forums towards various adoptees on these boards, though I believe “jerk” was used by someone as a thinly veiled attack on Jane Brown - btw I haven’t seen her on these boards for over a month, perhaps she didn’t feel it was a safe place either.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a safe place but it has to be a safe place for everyone.  I think I’m mostly respectful but I admit that four posts really got on my goat - this one (because I felt most members replies WERE quite respectful and it was the OP that kept derailing it), another one which I felt designed as an attack on the adult adoptees on the board and 2 failed adoption posts - one which was that deleted failed adoption thread where you said you were called a baby stealer (from what I vaguely remember, the poster who said that seemed to be talking about earlier posts but posted directly below yours), the other where I had no real problem with the OP but where I felt one of the commenters posted a rather appalling reply.  On the other hand, there have been adoptees who have given genuine replies to other members on info-seeking threads and then had their replies used against them on other threads. 

However, in regards to threads where members want genuine advice about their child, I think you will find that the adoptees on here have shown nothing but respect and given genuine and caring advice.  We care about our fellow peeps and only want them to grow up being allowed to be individuals. 

Btw I look at everyone’s posts individually - thus when it comes to your posts, I can say that I have agreed with many things you’ve said and not agreed with others and vice versa. 

Btw in regards to the “dear birthmother letters” which started this whole thread, I googled “dear birthmother letters” by msfeverfew and found two posts - one was the post that Baileysmom found which was quite blunt, the other was a post on the infamous imaginary “screw you, birtmother” by Jana Wolff from her Secrets of an Adoptive Mother Book where she says what did go through her mind before adopting - however, apparently THAT imaginary “birthmother letter” was considered “refreshing and honest” by quite a few commentators on various mothering forums and amazon. 

Here it is in entirety:

“Dear Birth Mother:
Screw you. Do you think I want to beg a complete stranger for a kid whose own mother doesn’t want him? You messed up and now you get to sit in judgment of the perfect parents for your baby….What do you know about parenting? About perfection? How will you choose, anyway? Will it be the prettiest couple? The richest? The hippest? The most devout? We wouldn’t win on any of those counts.

If, by some fluke, you do us the great honor of pronouncing us fit to be adoptive parents, what will we owe you? Will we have to support you for the rest of your life? Name the kid after you? And what will happen once you realize what you’ve done? Will you come back and reclaim your child, rip her away and change her name? How could we ever trust you? How could we ever believe you?
Who are you, anyhow? What kind of person would get herself knocked up by a scummy guy who runs away when he hears the news? Haven’t you heard of birth control? Of AIDS? Of abortion? Of OB/GYNs? Of monogamy? Of love?
I don’t want my kid to be your mistake”

I get that it was imaginary and just thoughts going through her head but surely people can see how hard that would be for a bmom to read - it is hard for me to read as an adoptee - I would be appalled if my amom had thought that about my own bmom.  I have seen others admit similar things on confession-type blogs/threads elsewhere so I know that her thoughts aren’t unique.  However, I like to believe that most APs have much kinder hearts- in fact, if you read the comments on M’s blog attached to THAT particular blog post, you will see how much mutual respect there is between herself and quite a few APs who have commented on that post.  .

Anyway, my point is that I’ve seen the above imaginary letter talked about elsewhere as being “honest and refreshing” by the very same people who would then consider M’s far less offensive though blunt post to be the ramblings of a bitter and twisted bmom.

“I do not deserve to be shamed or called out for not feeling comfortable publicly sharing intimate details of my son and his birth family. Based on that, I do not deserved the implication that there is something flawed in my relationship with my son as your last sentence implies.”

As Eri has said, I didn’t read her last sentence as implying that at all.  I just felt she was saying that many adoptees, regardless of their background, can have conflicting feelings about their adoption.  In fact, even on a basic feeling, many APs with schoolage children accept that their children can have very conflicting feelings about one of the basic facts of adoption - that we were born into a different family than the one in which we are raised - and that those feelings aren’t a reflection on themselves.  This acknowledgement that it isn’t a reflection on themselves can actually be freeing for an AP and also help them to understand their child. 
Btw I have often pointed out that one of the things quite a few of the adoptees have on here is that we have great bfamilies as well as afamilies and that in itself can cause conflicting feelings.  I personally refuse to sell either family down the rive by saying one family is “better” than the other.  The truth is that they are different to each other and I refuse to disrespect either. 

“I would love to get some perspective on our recent visit with my son’s birth family but I feel like I have nowhere to turn and am scared something I post will be misinterpreted or copied onto another site where I would have no way to defend myself.”

I think you will find that everyone would treat that post with the upmost of respect.  As I said above in the previous post, you will find that when it comes to questions about the littlest adoptees - everyone on here, AP or adoptee, have given thoughtful caring replies. 

There have been quite a few threads where I believe EST, Erisycamore, Jeanne and myself have given some thoughtful replies from an adoptee angle.

Btw Gggfier - you might find this blog post by an IA quite interesting (I posted it on another thread) as it gives an insight into the often contradictory feelings adoptees have and also the weird spot society can put adoptees in.

http://yoonsblur.blogspot.com.au/2010/06/well-adjusted-model-adoptee.html

gqqfier15 on Aug 21, 2012 at 4:35am -

I do believe BaileysMom was the one who ridiculed those who were trying to educate her (some rather nicely, I thought), when she accused them of not having an education further than the 6th grade. In my response, I was merely pointing out (a) the irony of the situation and (b) the reality that some of us out here in the adoption hinterland DO, in fact, have an education beyond the 6th grade.  Perhaps some of my tongue-in-cheek humor was lost in the digital soup that is the Interweb. My apologies if it was.

Now regarding the copying and posting of BaileysMoms statements onto another site: BaileysMom called *me* out, linked to my writings, and accused me of certain beliefs and actions. She portrayed me as being an extremist who believes adoption should never happen and a that adoptive parents are “bad people” because they can’t have children. It isn’t as if I was out trolling the web, came across her post here at Adoptive Families Circle, and then went after her. She. Linked. To. My. Blog. TWICE. Without even bothering to ask me to clarify my personal beliefs in private first. I have an absolute right to defend myself against those egregious accusations.

In an effort to avoid misquoting or misrepresenting BaileysMom’s comments, I quoted them word for word. Quoting another writer in a rebuttal of the original writer’s comments is common practice in academic circles. Citing short segments of another’s writing is generally done without getting “permission” or “approval” from the original author (that whole academic freedom and freedom of thought thing). What *is* required is to accurately cite & credit the original source, which I did by linking to her comments here at Adoptive Families Circle. By doing so, readers can look at the original source material and determine the context of the statements quoted within the rebuttal.

In an effort to clarify my **true** positions and beliefs, I segmented BaileysMom’s accusations so I could address each one individually. After all, and correct me if I am wrong, I believe you indicated BaileysMom was simply seeking clarification. I was simply trying to make it as easy and clear as possible to address each individual charge.  If you care to read my response, you will note I do not attack or belittle BaileysMom for her uninformed PAP views, make fun of her education level as she did to women who were trying to answer her questions, nor do I attack her for so erroneously misrepresenting my position on adoption and adoptive parents. In fact, this is what I said in the comment section about the situation:

“I hope the original instigator of the stuff over at Adoptive Families Circle takes the chance to come back here and read my response, as well as some of the other things I have written. Apparently, she has not yet explored what adoption might feel like from the natural family¡Çs point of view yet. The adoption industry does an incredible job of keeping people blind and dumb in the U.S. about the realities of it all, I can¡Çt necessarily blame her for coming into the process unawares of some of these issues. However, I hope for her future adopted child¡Çs sake, she allows her eyes to be opened and her heart to be softened to the Janus-like nature of adoption.”

I still feel the same way, even after she said that no one responding to her, including women I respect - women who responded to her queries with genuine compassion and interest in helping her learn about adoption from a natural family’s POV - had more than a 6th grade education. Adoption is complex, it’s messy, and it’s painful. For all of us in the adoption mosaic.

I am extremely grateful BaileysMom was able to acknowledge her misinterpretation of my adoption experience and my views about adoption - some individuals lack the wherewithal to do such a thing.  I truly hope she can come to a more enlightened understanding of adoption, with a heart wide open to both the good **and** the not-so-good parts of adoption.

Katiesue,  I read the blog the first time you posted it.  I just didn’t feel the need to comment. I do think that I try to understand and learn from my son’s point of view.  Thanks for sharing.

“Katiesue,  I read the blog the first time you posted it.  I just didn’t feel the need to comment. I do think that I try to understand and learn from my son’s point of view.  Thanks for sharing”

Goodoh.  I did also repost it in case other people wanted to read it as well.