My husband and I adopted due to infertility.  I have not been in your situation but, I must say one thing, You should NOT feel guilty or greedy!!  Sorry you are feeling this way. There are many families that have adopted having biological children.  Not all families choose adoption due to infertility.  My cousin in fact, is able to have biological children but has chosen to make her family through adoption.  I also have a girlfriend who has placed her baby for adoption and she was looking for a family with children.  Please don’t get discouraged.  Maybe try a different agency.

I understand how you feel.  We have two bio children and then were unable to have a third and we went through foster first and then ended up privately adopting our son.  I just kept feeling like my family wasn’t complete.  We felt guilty too on and off during the process but my son is turning one soon and he perfectly completes our family.  I love him just as much as our bio children and my bio children love him to pieces.  I truly believe he was meant to be in our family and that if we weren’t meant to have another one then we wouldn’t have gotten chosen by our BM.  The BMs are all looking for something specific that they are comfortable with and some want their baby to be a part of a big family.  Some BMs did not pick us because we have kids but I think we were perfectly matched when it did happen.  We are very close to our BM and she also loves our bio children as well.
Just follow what’s in your heart.  Good luck!

We do not have bio children, but we had 2 adopted children, ages 6 and 5, at the time when we adopted our son. I felt somewhat guilty at first. Especially when we were not really even looking to adopt again. I was talking to a BM a family member had contacted me about to try and help her with her decision on how to place her baby. I was giving her info about our agency and we talked for about an hour. One week later, our agency called saying she wanted us to parent her baby. It just felt right and he has made our family complete.
I even had some people approach me saying we already had 2 and should have let someone else adopt him. His BM wanted him with us because she liked the fact that we already had 2 adopted children and were very open with them about their adoptions. She knew we would talk to him positively about her and his adoption.
Don’t worry about what other people say. You know your reasons for adopting and you know when your family is complete.

My husband and I have 1 biological son, 1 adopted son and one biological baby on the way.  Everyone has different reasons for adopting and I think it is wonderful that you want to adopt another child into your home.  We went through the state process to adopt and met many other people in our same position, ability to have children naturally and still choose to adopt.  Just know that your decision to adopt will benefit the life of another child and give your existing family an experience that can not be replicated.  Everyone’s situation is unique and only you know what is right for you and your family.

THE most prominent thing I’ve noticed in this discussion is that it is parent-centric instead of CHILD-centric, which is what adoption is SUPPOSED to be about.  “Are we the best, available resource for this CHILD?” should be the question you are asking yourselves.  Adoption is NOT about whether or not you want a child or another child.  Its not about whether its selfish or not.  Its about whether or not you are the best option, if no extended family member is available and willing to parent the child in need of a new family.

    One of the things TO consider though, if you have children who were born to you (and please, do NOT refer to them as “children of our own,” as though children adopted into the family will be OTHER than your own), is how that would be for any incoming adopted child.  While surely the adopted child is loved and cherished, and this is not an issue when that child is too young to understand, it most definitely IS a MAJOR issue when the child is old enough to grasp that everyone else shares ancestral history except him/her.  That is very difficult for many to most children.  Especially since Society-at-large repeatedly says in a variety of ways that adoption does not yield authentic family status.  i.e. messages such as “Where are your REAL parents?” or “Do the people who adopted you have kids of their OWN?” or “When are you going to look for your REAL family?” or “Its almost like you have a REAL family when you are adopted.” —-these are all-too common misconceptions about adoption, and they make a sole adopted child in a family feel lesser and “different.” 

    While parents who have a single adopted child and other children who were born to them, of course, convey the message that all of the children are equally loved and have equal status and worth, that does not entirely counter the negative, devaluing societal messaging—and therein lies the problem. 

    One thing families CAN think about that helps, is whether they can adopt two children, and not make their adopted child the sole focus of the devaluing messages and sense of belng “different.”  It is better for the adopted child, better for the non-adopted siblings, as well, and promotes a stronger, better relationship between/amongst siblings.  Its tough to be “one of a kind,” and it is not so easy for the other children to have so much focus on the child who was adopted, and that diminishes that.

    What I do suggest folks consider, though, is to adopt older children or children with special needs conditions.  There ARE, unfortunately, only a limited number of newborn babies.  And there are a great many prospective parents who have never had the opportunity to parent ANY child.  All things being equal, when a family with children adopt a newborn, they ARE taking an opportunity away from a family who has never had the chance to parent a newborn child, and that is worth thinking about.  Especially when there are so very many older children who are in need of families, and are ALSO wonderful and bring great joy. 

  One more comment.  PLEASE folks, DO stop referring to birth mothers as BMs.  That is the abbreviation for bowel movements—NOT respectful of birth parents and certainly not respectful of your adopted child or future adopted child, either.  And by the way, a birth mother is not a birth mother until and unless she and the baby’s father have their parental rights legally terminated.  Referring to an expectant mother as a birth mother prior to that demonstrates a sense of entitlement that isn’t appropriate.  It leads to prospective adoptive parents thinking and behaving as though they have been wronged—that the baby’s parents have stolen THEIR child from them, when and if they change their minds and decide to parent.  It also encourages prospective adoptive parents to bestow gifts, put on party manners, etc… as though they are wooing expectant parents and then get angry because they did such a good job, but the baby’s parents weren’t grateful enough to give them their baby. 

    Although some of you may not like it when I speak out or when another veteran adoptive parent or adoption professional speaks out to express these opinions.  However, we ARE acting in YOUR best interests and not just in the best interests of children.  When you use appropriate and accurate language, you prepare yourself adequately to adopt, and you demonstrate respect which will serve you better in these lifelong relationships with your child and his/her birth parents.  When you use inaccurate language and are disrespectful, it sets a negative tone, and it establishes a sense of entitlement which will interfere with the relationships you will want to have, going forward, with your child and his/her birth parents.  The language you use also becomes a guide for others around you—extended family, friends, your children, etc…—shaping how THEY will think of your child’s birth parents and how they will interact with them. 

Jane A. Brown, MSW

Jane,

You are entitled to your personal and professional opinion but posting a chastisement to others is, to put it plainly, “just not cool” and doesn’t add to the conversation except to insert division.

I take issue with your statement that “when a family with children adopt a newborn, they ARE taking an opportunity away from a family who has never had the chance to parent a newborn child”.

For goodness sake, you make it seem like a theft has occurred which is not the case.

As a foster mom, birth mom of two and prospective adoptive parent, I believe that there is a family for every child. Regardless of whether our family is chosen to adopt a newborn child or foster an older one, I trust that things will work out exactly as they are supposed to.

To original poster, you have to do what is best for you and your family.  You have not chosen an easy path and your convictions must be strong and well-thought out. 

To Jane, as always, you rock.  I have two children through open domestic adoption, both special needs.  You are the voice of experience and I always read your posts several times to make sure I am getting the main points.

Edited version - I felt my first go round sounded much more negative than i intended.

Hopingforfour - My husband and I have 3 biological children and are in the waiting group of adoptive parents with our local children’s home.
We started this process a year ago (We have been in the waiting pool for just over a month)- with the feeling that we wanted to grow our family through adoption.  We aren’t able to have more children biologically.
The agency we are working with is very child centric (as I think most are!) - and finds families for children - not the other way around.  With that in mind I truly agree with what many folks here are saying - that each adoption journey is unique and that we may just be the “right” fit for someone’s adoption plan.

As a mom of three - I have experienced folks offering well meaning advice on caring for and parenting my children.  Unfortunately - sometimes they come across as I feel Jane did - which is talking to you like you are a child yourself and that you have no real understanding of life in general - let alone complicated things like adoption and parenting.  Sharing knowledge is fantastic - but sharing it in a way that comes across as belittling is not productive.

None of the folks we have been taking our adoption education classes with have made us feel like usurpers into their world of adoption.  Which has been great.  We have had the opportunity to listen to panels of birth moms and dads and adoptive moms and dads.  They all had unique experiences and expectations and that gives me hope.

If you have a chance - you might talk about your concerns with your caseworker.  I had some of the same concerns initially and our caseworker definitely helped assuage them.
Good Luck!!!

Thank you Jane for your input…as always your words provide food for thought…Our birth parents were concerned with one thing- they were sure they wanted to place but they made us PROMISE that if or when we adopt again that we make sure to adopt another child who looks liker our daughter- so she won’t be the only child who was biracial…Hubby and I had already discussed this early on when we started our adoption process so it was an easy promise to make and is an easy promise to keep for us…our family is unique anyhow being multiracial and all…I think our birth parents had a valid concern about how she would feel as she grew up…and I think this is something that would have to handled delicately no matter what the dynamics are in the family and accordingly, people need to decide what is best for their family and for their children- biological and adopted…I grew up with a girl who was adopted and her siblings who were biological always felt she was favored and actually as an adult she admits she was favored- her adoptive parents were so afraid of her feeling different that in the end she did and it caused issues for all of the children…she got away with stuff that meant being grounded for the others which was hardly fair…so I think biological children’s feelings also need to be considered….I think expanding one’s family is a wonderful thing and it heartens me to know that others also have concerns about their paths and doing what is best for all involved…best wishes!

I have a bio son. My husband and I are planning on adopting a baby. Jane’s argument is that I’m taking a chance to parent a newborn away from someone else since I’ve already done it, but what about my husband? He hasn’t raised any kids from infancy. Does he give up that chance simply because I’ve done it?

I also don’t think that adopting 2 is the solution to feeling “different” or “one of a kind.” And if it does work, then how do I balance the feelings of my bio son who is suddenly the “one of a kind” kid? Should I have another bio child? If that’s the case, I’ve just added 3 people to my family so that no one feels “different.” That’s not very realistic.

Finally, Jane, I do not think that people dislike what you say, but rather how you say it. Telling adults that you are acting in their best interest can be demeaning and alienating. While much of the time I agree with your sentiment, I have a hard time with your delivery. You might make more of a positive impact by softening your approach some. Truth and diplomacy are not mutually exclusive.

My husband and I had three bio kids when we adopted our daughter from China.  I never felt the need to pursue domestic newborn adoption.  I felt that I had already experienced “the baby phase” three times. We considered international adoption and adoption from foster care.  I really wanted to adopt a child that might not have a chance at a home or family.  (before anyone mentions it:  I don’t feel like I “rescued” my daughter or that she needs to be eternally grateful to me for her adoption)  =)  There are many homes available for each newborn.

That being said, this is my experience.  I don’t judge anyone for making a different choice than mine.

My daughter had RAD and required intensive counseling for some time.  Had her adjustment been easier, we strongly would have considered adopting another child from China.  We could not adopt again when our family was in turmoil and now my DH feels like he is too old to adopt again.  I think it would have been easier for her in some ways to have an adopted sibling, especially another one who shared her background.  It is not easy to be the only one in the family who is different, especially in a transracial adoption.  She always stands out in our family of six.

I do agree with Jane regarding the BM abbreviations.  Bmom takes two more letters to type and is not offensive.  I also agree with her on the problems with referring to pregnant women as “birthmothers”.  A woman is a birthmom AFTER she signs away her rights.  An emom always has the right to change her mind on placing even after the baby is born.  PAPs might save themselves some heartache if they can guard their hearts from “claiming” a baby that has not been relinquished yet.

We have 2 bio children. We decided to become foster parents because we wanted to give kids in need a safe home. That situation ended up transitioning into a foster-adopt case. We have decided to adopt one more time because we didn’t feel that our family was complete yet. Do what your heart tells you feels right.

Hi!  I don’t think you should feel guilty that you have been blessed with children by birth and are also wanting to adopt.  You shared that you have the desire for a child, but are not able to have children by birth now and that part is the same as the others in your class, although you have experienced “secondary infertility” which is not exactly the same as “infertility”, but you can relate some to what the others are feeling in that way.  Of course the fact that you have three children is much different, but everyone does not have to be the same to adopt.  (Some couples/families adopt who have not experienced any infertility at all)  Also I think by your post and writing to this group, that you are in the process of infant adoption and not foster adoption, and there may be some expectant mothers who want a family with children for their baby to grow up in, or want their baby to be raised in a larger family like yours.

I have different thoughts about something that was mentioned in one of the other posts, and wanted to also share about that as an adoptee and adoptive mommy.  Jane had mentioned in what she wrote, about adoption as an option if no extended family member is available and willing to parent a child in need of a new family.  I have heard this from others also, and personally don’t feel that is the only time that a child can be or should be placed for adoption.  To me when this is said, it does a couple of things… it takes away the expectant mother’s right to choose what she wants for her baby (what she thinks is best), and also relegates adoption as a “last resort only option” for a child , instead of another caring option.  While I realize adoption is not a first resort option for a child, it doesn’t have to be thought of as a “last resort only option” for a child either…which is how I view placing a child in an orphanage, or foster care (which is better than an orphanage, but is still a last resort type of option for a child).  Viewing adoption as a last resort type of option only is like saying everything else was tried/exhausted and wouldn’t work, and so then the child was adopted because there was nothing left to do for them.  How can a child feel good about being adopted when it is viewed like that, that there was nothing left to do for you , but for you to “be adopted” (as children wouldn’t probably feel good about being put in orphanages or foster care).  Instead of it being viewed that your birthmother wasn’t able to or felt ready to be a parent, but wanted the best for you, so she chose to place you for adoption, and/or chose a family to raise you because she couldn’t, etc.  Adoption is providing a caring family for a child, and is not the same as placing a child in an orphanage or foster care.
 
I feel that adoption is a positive, loving option for an unplanned/crisis pregnancy, and is an option for an expectant mother who doesn’t feel able, ready, or want to parent at this time.  Adoption is something that is done out of love for a child by their mother when she feels that she is not able or ready (or desires) to be a parent.  Placing a child with extended family is also a loving option for a crisis pregnancy when the mother is not able to or chooses not to parent, but it is not necessarily a superior option to adoption, it depends on the circumstances and what the mother wants.  Both are caring options that can be considered by individual expectant mothers, and have individual circumstances to consider.  My birthmother was also a child born from a crisis pregnancy, and because of that, her parents got married.  However shortly after she was born, her mother abandoned her and went off to another country to be a singer (she obviously was not ready or desiring to be a mother).  Her father was in the service, and so her aunts/grandfather raised her until she was ten years old and her father remarried.  She feels blessed to have been raised by them during that time, and extended family was a loving option for her. 

When my birthmom’s father remarried, he married a woman with four children and she went to live with him and the new family.  Her father/stepmother then had four more children together (they became a yours, mine and ours family with nine children), and she remembers that her stepmother had always said…if any of you girls become pregnant, we’ll take the baby and raise it as our own.  When my birthmother became pregnant in college with me at 19 years old (living in a different city), she did not want to go back there with me or have me raised by them, and chose adoption for me.  (I’m glad that she did, I’ve met most of them and while they are sweet, caring folks, it’s still rather a zoo over there)  It would have been a “loving option” to have had me raised by my birthmom’s immediate family (they would have loved me), but not the option that she wanted and I think that was best.  Sometimes extended family is not best or even a good option, when an expectant mother doesn’t choose to parent.  In the situation with my daughters’ birthmom, each of her sisters offered to raise her baby (our oldest daughter).  She didn’t want to do that though, she wanted to place her baby for adoption and have her baby raised by a family with a dad and a mom who didn’t have children.  (Her sisters all had children, and one was going through a divorce, another had a husband that I don’t think she really likes, etc.)  There could be different reasons a emom doesn’t choose her family to raise/adopt her baby, even though they would love and care for the child… she doesn’t care for the way they parent, she doesn’t agree with their lifestyle or views about things, they are dysfunctional, they are older (like grandparents), they are single and she desires a two-parent family for her baby, she doesn’t feel that they really want a child and she wants a family for her baby that really wants a child, etc.     

So I think if an expectant mother in a crisis pregnancy who chooses not to parent doesn’t want her family members (extended family) to raise her baby, that should be okay.  Otherwise we are saying it is “wrong” for her to choose adoption for her baby if there are any family/extended family members who are willing to raise the baby.  As one of those “babies” now grown up, not only do I not want an expectant mother pressured to parent when she doesn’t feel able or want to right now, I don’t want her pressured to let family members raise her child or adopt her child either.  In thinking of the best interests of the child, we wouldn’t want a child raised by someone who didn’t really want to, and while I think many family members would step up and help out if there was a baby/child in their family that needed to be raised, that doesn’t mean that they necessarily would want to do that.  (They may do it out of love for the child or a feeling of responsibility, but not necessarily want to raise another child or a child, so the child could be raised by someone who doesn’t really 100% want to raise them, where with adoption the adoptive parents 100% want to parent the child.)

I agree with the misconceptions that Jane shared about adoption, and felt that over time those messages (“real mother,” “real brother,” etc.) affected me as an adoptee and my feelings about the validity of my (adoptive) family.  If I have “lifelong grief” related to being adopted, I think that would be a part of it for me as an adult adoptee and feeling like the validity of my family and our relationships depended on each person’s personal perspective about adoption (some thinking my birth mother is my “real mom,” and others thinking my adoptive mother is “my mom,” it’s kind of like standing on shifting sand.)  I also personally agree about that it would have been hard for me if my brother had been my parent’s biological child, and I was the only adopted child in our family.  I think for my brother it would not have been as hard, as I think I was more conscious of being adopted (feeling both special/different at the same time).  Each adoptee is different in how they feel about being adopted, even within the same family.

Hugs,
Kris

Hi Kris,

    The courts and not individuals or the adoption-community-at-large have established the policy of considering adoption by non-relatives as a last-option for children in need of permanent families.  If and when a relative is willing and able to step in, the courts rule in favor of that, unless the relative is deemed unfit to raise a child.  That is considered best-practice, regardless of what any of us believe is right.  It is why so many children are being raised by their grandparents, these days, when their parents abandon them or go to prison, or have ruined their own lives due to substance/alcohol abuse.  It may be questionable as to whether that is really what is best for the children, but the courts do not examine whether that is the case or not.  The grandparents are granted custody, and are able to formally adopt if the courts deem the parents incapable or having abandoned their child or children.

Jane A. Brown, MSW

When I respond to a topic being discussed, my comments reflect my deep concern and respect for the children who grow up adopted, rather than how I know it is for many to most adoptive parents. I do so because I realize that it is rare to have an insider-point-of-view made possible by the work I do with adopted kids. That does not make me any better than anyone else, just better informed because that happens to be my area of expertise, and I’ve been doing what I have been doing for a very long time, and with populations of adopted children around the world so that I can generalize about the PATTERNS of ways that they think/feel/wonder/theorize. I can’t speak for every adopted person any more than anyone else can, and I don’t pretend to). I generally write about how differently adopted kids TEND to think, from how most adults BELIEVE that they think or feel.  I do not insult individuals over their opinions and beliefs.  I do not direct my comments to specific individuals.  I make generalizations based on the patterns I observe in how adopted kids think, feel, wonder, theorize that are often in reaction to what we, as adoptive parents, say and do without being cognizant of how that gets interpreted. 

    While some of you, as individuals, may not like my writing style, I would remind you that our writing styles as individuals are as unique as are our personalities or our fingerprints and are not necessarily something that we can or should modify because someone might not like the way we say what it is that we do.  I suspect that it is the message, more than how its delivered, that people object to, despite the claims otherwise.  That the complaints about the style/tone/way of writing/words used or however else folks complain about what I say are intended to neutralize the message because its threatening to the way folks wish to see whatever it is that we are discussing, and I see that differently because I so often see it from what is typical of an adopted child’s point of view.  They are attempts to reduce or eradicate my credibility.  Otherwise, folks who do not like what I have to say, or the way that I say what I do would simply skip over my posts and only read and respond to those of others in the forum.  Further, if it were my writing style that was the true issue, the discussion would more likely be conducted privately, not in the public forum, since no PERSON should become the focus of discussion.  That is hardly the purpose of providing these forums.

    That is also a form of bullying.  One is saying, in effect, I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but I don’t like you.  Over many years, I have observed how that sort of strategy drives many people out of a forum because it is deeply hurtful and shames them in front of others, publicly.  I would guess that no one here would intentionally engage in that, but irregardless of the intent, that IS the impact. 

    At any rate, I intend to focus on the discussion points, and not who is involved in the discussions.
I wish you and your children all the best. 

    For those of you who have children born to you and have or are planning to adopt children, my hope is that you will think about what I shared, and that that will help you be more mindful of what the pitfalls could be for your children.  If you know what they are, you can better anticipate what could be problematic and try to address that through your parenting.  You can, hopefully, be more conscious of those conversations, assumptions, beliefs, omissions that could either undermine OR strengthen your childrens’ sibling bonds. 

Jane A. Brown, MSW

To monica h: 

    You shared that you have had a child born to you, while your husband has not.  I wrote of COUPLES who have bio kids, or have not had bio kids.  Not of couples in your situation—right?  I was not addressing my comments to a couple in a situation such as yours. 
So, I am not at all sure why you felt targeted by what I wrote. 

  If you had asked me what I thought about the situation that you are in, I would have answered in this way:  that since your husband has not had a child by birth and has never experienced having a newborn or young child, then it is not the same thing as a couple who HAS experienced that seeking to adopt a newborn instead of stretching a bit to consider children that might otherwise not receive a permanent family. 

  As far as how it would be for the son born to you, should you adopt two children:  he would actually have some parallel issues to an adopted sibling, in that he will be living apart from at least one of his genetic parents.  Yet, at the same time, he will have the connection with his genetic and ancestral family (or famiLIES, as long as he is in contact with his father).  He will not be totally one-of-a-kind, because you are part of his genetic and ancestral family, just as he is, and just as his father is. 

    Yet if he does, eventually, have two or more adopted siblings, he will also be different from them, and that IS something that I think needs to be understood and deserving of attention to his needs, as well as to the needs of the adoptees in the family.  Children born of their parents who have an adopted sibling (or more than one adopted sibling) have their OWN issues in terms of their sibling relatedness that should not be overlooked. 

    My hope is that irregardless of whether you or anyone else do not like the issues I point out, or the way that I raise them, my posts serve a useful purpose in helping you/others to anticipate potential issues that could undermine the intimacy you expect to have within your families, so that you can address those adequately and HAVE the terrific relationships you wish to have. 

    Five of my children were adopted into our family, three were born into our family, and we are permanent guardians for yet another.  The same issues I write about have, of course, been potential problems for us.  Knowing that—and having knowledge of how many to most kids who are adopted and their non-adopted siblings feel and think, helped my husband and I anticipate those issues arising, sense what was unspoken amongst them, see behavioral clues for what they were, and address those issues directly.  That boosted the quality of their relationships, so that they have the strong bonds any parent would hope that their children would and could have with one another.  Had we been ill-informed and oblivious to what was going on under the surface, hidden in plain sight, we might have observed the Great Divide amongst our sons and daughters, instead. 

    I participate in these forums because I feel an obligation to the many adopted children who are growing up today, to their non-adopted siblings, and to you all, my fellow adoptive parents.  I care deeply.  I have spent decades observing the erosion of relationships in adoptive families, and the sad reality of many healthy, young, adopted kids who later become troubled and distanced from their parents and siblings due to lack of specialized knowledge that should have been imparted to EVERY adoptive parent prior to the placement of a child.  Unfortunately, many agencies and social workers do not have that to give, and give mis-information, instead, or fail to share what they know for fear of scaring people so much that they decide not to adopt.  What we don’t know can and does hurt us, and hurts the children even more.  This often doesn’t become apparent until the children are teens or young adults—too late to undo damage and make the changes necessary to safeguard quality of life for them, for their non-adopted siblings, and for their parents.  While some of you may have a strong reaction to what I have to say, I do hope that you can and will understand that I participate here, as I do, because I care. 

Jane A. Brown, MSW

I’m just going to clarify, apologize and leave because I’m not really comfortable participating in this any further.

Jane, I asked you clarifying questions because the language you used was “folks” and “families”, not couples. I didn’t feel targeted by anything you said, at all. And I genuinely wanted to know if you honestly thought that we should be adopting 2 kids, and if so, why? I don’t agree with you on this (except the BM thing) but I’m ok with that.

I’m sorry that you felt bullied, when I mentioned your approach. I was responding to this from you:

“Although some of you may not like it when I speak out or when another veteran adoptive parent or adoption professional speaks out to express these opinions.  However, we ARE acting in YOUR best interests and not just in the best interests of children”

My intention was to express my own feelings about your statement. It was not an attempt to “reduce or eradicate” your credibility. I will, however, keep my opinions and feelings to myself in the future.

Hopingforfour, every situation is different, and there’s no “one size fits all” approach. If you want to adopt after bio kids, awesome! Best of luck.

Hello everyone.  I was reading the posts on this topic because we also have biological children and adopted children, and it is so interesting to hear from so many people in so many similar yet also different situations from my own.  But suddenly I abruptly lost interest in participating…  and it was after reading Jane brown’s first post.  Although I have very often appreciated Jane’s comments in the various groups I have joined here, and I am impressed by her professionalism and vast knowledge as a social worker, when I read her first post in this thread I felt it seemed ‘off’—because there was an air of condescension that is not appropriate to this forum.  It felt as if the principal stepped into the classroom to set limits and rules and get everybody sitting with hands folded. ( I’m sure you didn’t intend this, Jane!  But I also felt the wrist-slap in your post… and I hadn’t even said anything yet.)  The wealth of information Jane imparted in this post is certainly useful and well-intentioned.  But the effect of such a post is largely to silence the others who are feeling our way because the Expert has Spoken, and in such a way as to make many posters feel we’ve been ‘set straight.’

Makes me not want to comment further on the subject in this post.  Makes me also think it would be a great idea to have a group called ‘Ask an Expert” which Jane and other adoption professionals could moderate.  Such a group would certainly get asked TONS of questions, and the answers would be very much appreciated.

Jane,

Thanks for writing to explain about that to me, and understand what you meant (it would be okay of course too if you felt differently).  I do feel that some others are not talking about that however, and are sharing what they think about extended family needing to be the second option ,which they are entitled to their opinions as we each are.  An example of this would be people saying in the other thread about a prospective adoptive couple being too old at sixty to adopt a newborn,  unless they are biological relatives… hmmmm.  If sixty is too old for someone to adopt a baby for the different reasons that people have shared about, then it would also be too old for sixty year old biological family to adopt a baby who is related to them (although it seems more the norm/acceptable to us as a society for that to happen, than having non-related parents adopting a baby at sixty years old).  I also wouldn’t judge an expectant mother/family that wanted that to happen, but to have the blanket belief that this is always what should happen and is always “best,” to place a child with any extended family relative just because they are a biological relative (except if they are such a mess that they are deemed “unfit” by the court), regardless of the emother’s wishes or considering the details about the biological relative’s life, parenting abilities, etc., bothers me.  I think this is the belief that “biology trumps all” in regards to families/children, and I do not agree. 

I share this as an adoptee who has a good relationship with both my adoptive and birth family, and have seen in my own family history and can see that in some cases the biological family would be the best choice, and in others it wouldn’t.  (Also, when open adoption is the type of adoption in which the child has been adopted, the child can grow up with a bond/connection to their biological family in their adoptive family, so it does not become an either or situation). 

Hugs to you, Jane.  Thanks for writing on here and contributing to everyone learning more about adoptees and best attitudes/terminology about adoption.  I appreciate the support as an adoptee and adoptive mom. 

Kris

Jane,
You are an outstanding resource and I am troubled by the criticism you are receiving.  If only my adoptive parents had access or chose to access a knowledgeable therapist such as yourself I truly feel many of the issues I faced in life could have been lessened.

Which is what I hope for the next generation and those to follow of adoptees will have.  Adoptive parents who are educated if not understand the issues their adoptees face.

I gave my adoptive mother a copy of PRIMAL WOUND at age 25, she said to me “is this whole book going to be about you?  Why did no one tell me?”

Jane is telling you.  We are telling you.  It is up to you to listen and do what is best for your kids.

If you don’t you could be faced with an adult adoptee saying - why didn’t you listen,,, ???  not just why did no one tell me? 
We are telling you.  Jane is telling you.  Countless blogs, books, research is telling you. 

Are you going to listen?

Jane,
You are an outstanding resource and I am troubled by the criticism you are receiving.  If only my adoptive parents had access or chose to access a knowledgeable therapist such as yourself I truly feel many of the issues I faced in life could have been lessened.

Which is what I hope for the next generation and those to follow of adoptees will have.  Adoptive parents who are educated if not understand the issues their adoptees face.

I gave my adoptive mother a copy of PRIMAL WOUND at age 25, after reading the first chapter she said to me “is this whole book going to be about you?  Why did no one tell me?”  They told me you would be a blank slate.

Jane is telling you.  We are telling you.  It is up to you to listen and do what is best for your kids.

If you don’t you could be faced with an adult adoptee saying - why didn’t you listen,,, ???  not just why did no one tell me? 
We are telling you.  Jane is telling you.  Countless blogs, books, research is telling you. 

Are you going to listen?

I appreciate reading Jane’s opinions, but I also agree this one felt more judgemental than her usual friendly informative posts.  Still, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion and everyone is entitled to have an off day.

I want to know what people like Jane think of the current policy of “family re-unification” or staying with bio-family members as the best idea for foster kids? 

I personally believe that it does not have the best interest of the child in mind and that this process allows young children who might easily find homes with adoptive families bounce back and forth and become so damaged that it’s hard for adoptive families to consider parenting them.

And while each case is different, the idea that in a bad situation where the parent’s rights are terminated an adoptive family might have to agree to continued contact between the child and those judged not fit to parent is incomprehensible.

I cannot imagine a child having to relive early trauma by doing this, when perhaps it would be most child centric and child friendly for this child to be allowed to become secure in the knowledge that he or she is a permanent member of their adoptive family and need not go back unless he or she chooses to as an adult.

Lastly while I understand the great need for homes for children in foster care or with special needs I think it is important to realize that this is not the path for everyone and no one should be made to feel that they are selfish for deciding they cannot take this on.

I should add that my preemie failure to thrive 1 year old Russian orphan daughter came home 2.5 years ago, had global delays, a tough time bonding, had eating difficulties that continue and has been diagnosed with epilepsy. She is now nearly caught up to her peers, is on the charts at last for height and weight, seizures well controlled with meds, bright, funny, loving, and my darling daughter.
I have been able to handle her issues; but there are other issues I would not have been able to take on and I knew that going in.  Being honest with yourself, about the child you may adopt, and your own limits is critical to sucessful family building.

Sorry to say, Jane, I too found your comment a bit condescending and judgmental as if you are the sole voice for what is RIGHT.  As an adoptive mom, I want to do what is right by my child and will do all I can to raise a healthy and happy child.  I feel and hope that is most parents concern whether their child is adopted or not.  Guess what, we are all going to mess up from time to time too.  In fact, I’ve had the pleasure of knowing some therapist’s children who are more messed up than a lot non-therapist’s children.  You do have a point of view, however, that I am sure can be helpful, but you need to be careful with your wording, as you have asked us to be careful with ours.

Thanks for asking the question.  We had a similar experience when we were going through the early process.  We still get asked this question with some frequency which led me to write the blog post below.  I think you need to do what you believe is right for your family.  Creating our family through biology and adoption was the right choice for us and we can’t imagine our family being any other way. 

Good luck—these are tough issues to wrestle with as you can see from this thread.

http://www.adoptivefamiliescircle.com/blogs/post/biological_families_adopting_internationally/

I have two bio kids, who are now 19 and 20, and my adopted Bolivian daughters are both now 4 years old.  In our adoption workshop we were the only ones who already had children, but we were also the only ones (at the time) living with the babies we were to adopt.  Our experience was different but so was our journey - it took 4 years to adopt the girls following many before that to be able to even though we had always wanted to adopt (even before I had problems which affected our ablility to have more biological children).
Given the number of orphans in this world I think that having biological children is no reason to not adopt or to feel guilty - if it is part of God’s plan He will complete your family with as many children as He deems right at the right time.  I intend to adopt 4 more but chances are they will be from Chile and be children up to about 7 years old.  I would have liked to have taken older children especially as my girls will miss their older siblings when we leave them in Bolivia but there are rules about age. 
My girls are not blood siblings and even though them being the same is an advantage it will be the source of issues in the future as one has all the information we could hope for abvout her roots and the other has all but nothing.
I encourage you to continue on without fear or guilt - each family makes its own decisions and plans for growth and some would never consider giving a loving home to what they consider ‘someone elses’ child.  If you had another child naturally (if it were possible) others would still have comments about having four children - it is really noone elses’ business as it is your family!!  Bless you heaps.

We’ve had someone chime in saying the opposite—they mentioned the world’s population, and basically are glad we’re not producing more humans on an overcrowded planet.  For real.  (!)  So I hope that helps counteract those feelings of guilt.  :o)

On a more serious note, we are in process again, specifically regarding one of the things Jane mentioned.  Our daughter looks very different than our biological sons and us, and we thought it would be best for her to have a sister who looks like her and shares the same culture/heritage and start in life.  And it will be good for our new daughter to enter a family with a sister who looks like her.  We also wanted to adopt again for other reasons, but that was a significant factor.

I hope you can feel peaceful about how you’re creating your family—I also had those thoughts, since we’d already been blessed twice with our bio sons.  But the desire to be a safe, loving place for a child and build your family is not wrong.  Enjoy anticipating your new family member!

Quick question about one of the abbreviations used several times in the posts: what does “emom” stand for?

Also, my short two cents: I don’t know if there’s an official definition for “birthmom”—but my take on is is that any woman who gives birth to a child is a “birthmom”—whether that child is ultimately raised by that woman or not. For example, I consider myself the birthmom for my son who I am raising. Another useful feature of this approach is that then, everyone in the family would have a birthmom—they just might be different people.

This is not a good approach.
Correct terminology- birthmom is used for women who give birth to a child and surrender or have their rights terminated.
Mom or mother is what you would be called raising your biological child.
emom is expectant mom- which is a pregnant woman considering an adoption plan for her baby

oh and the difference between your bio kids having a birthmom and your adopted child having a birthmom is that your bio kids would be raised by their birthmom and nature/nurture would not be separated… your adoptive child- would have a birthmom he/ she may not know and their nature/nuture would be separated.  Terminology can not change this fact even if you want it to…. really-  it is quite a shallow way at looking at it.  As if the issue lies in the terms.

Hi CLB,

  You asked what my opinion is of the current policies regarding placing foster children with members of their extended family and prioritizing reunification vs. placing children for adoption because a prospective adoptive family might be judged as “better.”  Our judicial system does not separate a child from his/her family unless that family has been abusive or negligent so that the child is unsafe.  While most of us carry beliefs and opinions regarding what constitutes a “better” upbringing, we cannot impose those beliefs on society.  We cannot, nor can the courts, go through neighborhoods or communities and snatch children from their families because they deem other families capable of giving them a “better” life.  That’s the law and it is written so as to protect the sanctity of “family” and important social institution.  While you or I might believe that a specific child might receive more opportunities, more financial security, more emotional support, more coaching as to how to develop socially sanctioned behavior, the reality is that we just do not have the right to judge some families as superior and others as inferior—so inferior that they do not deserve to be raising a child born within their family.  That applies to ALL children, and not just foster children. 

    Think about how much easier it is for a well-to-do or even middle class family to seemingly “prove” that they are a “better” resource for a child than a poor family—and many to most of the children in foster care come from poor families.  Race is also a factor, here.  We know that a far greater percentage of children of color are removed from their families than are white children—and over the same issues or level of neglect and/or abuse, so that is a significant factor, here.  The courts mandate is to try to maintain a somewhat level playing field, whereby a white, middle class, upper middle class, or upper class family (nearly all who adopt fall into these economic categories) are not advantaged over poor families (most of the families whose kids are in foster care fall into this socio-economic class).  They cannot and do not have the luxury of looking at each case individually, just as is the case when laws are made about ANY issue.

    Laws and social policies—by definition—are established and maintained to serve the majority, and not the individual.  Unfortunately, that DOES mean that SOME individuals (a minority of them, though) are not well served, allowing the majority TO be well-served.  That is basic to understanding what law and social policy is all about, and it applies here.

    I also know that many adoptive parents (and others who have no idea what the typical adopted child experiences internally) are dismissive of how great a loss it is for a child to be separated from his/her ancestral family.  We tend to believe that the stability, unconditional love, quality of nurture, opportunities given, etc… outweigh that.  We see things through our own lens of experience, which is biased, and may not match the views of most others, including many to most adult adoptees who are the experts in terms of being able to state what it is like for individuals to grow up separate from their original family. 

      You also seemed to be asking whether I/others like me agree with you that adoptive families should not be required to maintain contact with birth parents if they are in a bad situation instead of keeping the child away from them so that the child does not experience trauma again.  Once an adoption is finalized, no one CAN require the adoptive parents TO maintain contact.  They CAN determine whether and to what extent it is safe or dangerous for their child to have contact with the birth parents and anyone/everyone else. 

  However, in my opinion, it is morally wrong to lie—to make a promise even when one does not intend to keep it, just so as to be granted legal parent status.  Visits or phone calls and letters can be arranged in ways that keep the child safe, in most cases.  When there is danger, of course parents have the right and responsibility to not put their child into that situation.  However, adopted children need to know their history, even when abuse, neglect, domestic violence, mental illness, rape, incest, etc….—- all of the things that are toxic and confusing to children AND to us were factors that played a role in why they became available to be adopted.  Sometimes, when children DO have contact with their birth family, they are better able to see and know that although their birth family members care about them, they are not capable of providing a safe and nurturing home.  They better understand why they are growing up where they are.  They are better able to grasp deeply the words of their adoptive parents that although their birth parents are people of worth, they did not receive the quality nurture that would have empowered them to have satisfying lives and make good decisions, which is WHY they lost their parental rights.  It can help the child to know that he/she carries the same genetic “stuff” as their genetic parents, it is the safe, loving, nurturing environment that they are growing up in, that their birth parents did not have the opportunity to have, that makes all the difference in how they live THEIR lives.  It can help them to really, deeply understand that their genetic inheritance is not a script for how THEY will behave—something that cannot be imparted in any other way, as hard as adoptive parents work TO impart that lesson. 

    The danger that was much-discussed prior to states and courts allowing foster-adopt programs to come into existence was that foster families whose agenda was to adopt and not just to provide temporary care, would quickly come to think that possession is nine-tenths of the law.  That since they are doing a “better” job of providing nurture, they are entitled to keep and raise the children instead of helping the courts and social service systems restore a child to his/her family as long as that is safe.  Not better than what they would have in foster care.  Just safe.

    Fortunately, the decision was made that even though this could potentially interfere with returning children to their original families (included in that is the extended family), it is still in children’s best interests to be placed with a foster family who will adopt them if reunification can’t or doesn’t happen. 

    Adoption is always the last resort, regardless of whether an INDIVIDUAL child might receive better opportunities than if he/she is returned to their original family, because that is how the courts protect the institution of The Family.  If they allowed legal battles over who is a better-quality family, that would diminish their ability to do so, and that is never going to happen. 

      Don’t shoot the messenger.  I am merely explaining how social policy in the USA works.  My personal opinion is that our laws and policies serve MOST people well, MOST of the time, but that they cannot do so for every individual, every time—as unfortunate as that is. 

      I wish to weigh in about using the term “birth mother/father/parent” to describe a parent or parents whose child is growing up with them, instead of reserving it to describe a parent whose rights have been terminated and whose child has , as a result, been adopted. 

    Trying to verbally eradicate any difference by referring to EVERY mother as a “birth mother” does not eradicate the emotional baggage when a child is living separate and apart from his/her genetic parents.  That would only give more weight to the other terminology that most adoptive parents do not like: “real” parents (meaning: biological or first or original).  No matter whether adoptive parents name ALL mothers as “birth mothers” or not, there is no less confusion or pain for the child, and the child gets the message that the adoptive parents are competing—trying to establish and insist that they are just as authentic and that there is nothing special or more significant about the child’s original mother.  The child ends up feeling as though he/she is the middle of an emotional tug-of-war, between his/her adoptive mom and his/her original mom (even when that one is completely unknown and not participating in pulling back).  Guess where the child’s anger and resentment goes, eventually, when adoptive parents do these things?  I do not think that this is constructive or healthy.  It is our OWN lack of feeling entitled to be parents that propels us TO compete, and that is toxic to our relationship to our adopted children. 

      Adoptive parenting is a SHARED ROLE.  We MUST figure out how to embrace our child’s original parents and family, no matter what, if we are to help our child embrace who he/she is and all of the facets of how he/she got to BE that.  To judge their original parents and family as lesser that WE are, is to, by extension, judge our CHILD as of lesser-quality-stuff.  It may not seem that way to us, especially when our child or children are young, but it WILL come across to the CHILD that way, sooner or later. 

    I am so passionate about sharing what I think I have learned because I have learned these things from the experts—adopted children, youth, and adults.  I see a very broad cross-section of them in my work.  I work with adopted children across the USA, Canada, and Australia.  They are NOT kids who are troubled, whose families have signed them up because they are having “problems.”  They participate in my workshops so as to have the rare opportunity to compare and contrast their growing-up experiences, thoughts, feelings, opinions so as to NORMALIZE amongst themselves what it means to and about themselves to be adopted.  I have been doing this work for a long, long time—over twenty years—and I see the same kids over and over as they pass through various ages and stages, so that their thoughts, questions, feelings, and experiences change over time.  I do not believe that I am “right” so much as I believe that I reflect what the adopted children and their older or adult counterparts have taught me. It is THEIR experiential-wisdom that shapes my opinions and my words.

Jane A. Brown, MSW

One footnote to my prior post:

    Although there are organizations who make the claim that there are millions of “orphans” throughout the world in need of adoptive families, that is unsubstantiated.  Tragically, the more investigations there have been, the more we have learned that child trafficking has increased for the purpose of providing young, seemingly-healthy children to the highest bidders.  While the institution of adoption was created to provide a second chance at permanence for children who have been separated from their original parents—due to the $$ involved—it has morphed into a shady business that hurts children and families FAR too often, in places where families are more vulnerable due to extreme poverty and lack of access to a judicial system. 

    As government after government has cracked down on the child trafficking and the buying of children from poor women who opt to get $$ through sacrificing one child to feed and clothe the rest, the number of young children available for adoption has severely diminished.  Country after country has closed.  Families who once easily and readily adopted from Korea, China, Vietnam, Guatemala, and many many other countries no longer can, or wait five years or more.  There IS no limitless number of young children available, and there ARE far more people wanting to adopt than there are children—or at least YOUNG children.

    One person stated that not everyone is cut out to raise an adopted children with significant problems.  That is very true.  However, no one is ENTITLED to obtain a child to adopt.  And no one gets any guarantee that a child that one adopts will not have significant problems. 

Jane A. Brown, MSW

Nor do we get any guarentees that children born to us will come without significant problems. Parenting as any relationship comes with a great many unknowns about the future. We just do our best as situations arise. In my opinion the best we can do is keep our eyes open & heads out of the sand, try to keep learning, stay connected to others, reach out for professional help when needed, say we are sorry when we make mistakes and help our children to learn to do the same as they become adults.

Great Post Jane.

I agree.  Well said, Jane.

Families who have multiple children biologically are not criticized for procreating rather than adopting an older child. Likewise, adoptive parents, even if they already have biological children or adopted children they’ve reared since infancy, deserve to pursue their own dreams of parenthood—including rearing an(other) adopted child from infancy—without criticism.

Adam Pertman, executive director of the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, stated in his book, “Adoption Nation,” that adoptive parents should not feel guilty about wanting to parent an infant. I say “amen.”

hopingforfour- My husband and I were waiting to adopt for 1 1/2 years. I would get annoyed when someone who had kids joined our group/meeting. Especially when they would complain about the wait. I wanted to yell “at least you have a child!!”.

Well…after waiting 1 1/2 years, I found myself pregnant. It was a complete surprise as I was 41 and we tried for years to have a baby. My son is now 3 months old and I am starting to think about having a second. I know it is so soon after the baby but I am 42 and feel we need to decide ASAP what we want to do. Do we try to have another one (If I even can) or do we adopt like we were originally going to do?  Of course I think about how I felt in those meetings with people who already had kids.  Do I want to be one fo those people who, as Jane said “takes a baby away from a childless couple”.
The thing we have to remember is some birthmoms want a family that already have children.  I think as long as we do our homework and try to understand how our adopted child may feel growing up in a house where “they are the odd man out”, everything will work out. I don’t think every adopted child who grew up in a house with bio children has issues.

Jane-I appreciate your expertise although I am not sure I agree with everything you said. However, I do have two questions for you. Do you think INTL adoption is better for families that already have bio children or do you find the same issues with domestic and INTL adoption in that regard? Also, do you find that the bio child can have issues as well?Thank you.

I too am adopting after having 4 biological sons. I have always wanted to adopt & always felt I’d complete my family by doing so. My husband & I so would like a girl(or 2) & when I was unable to carry any of the pregnancies with our girls due to medical reasons, God comforted us by assuring us our family WILL BE completed. Do NOT feel guilty at all! The child you will adopt will be the perfect match for your family & they will then have a FOREVER family:)

I was the adopted girl for my family and I assure you I was not and am not a good fit for their family.  I love them and they love me- but as for fitting- no I stick out like a sore thumb.  Yes we are all white- but that is as far as the similarities go.
IF you are looking for a child to “fit in” with you… please do not adopt.  Adopted children have enough on their plates without trying to emulate you and become something they are not.
If you care for me to talk more about this I will.. but I must say this- I was a good fit in my bio family- not my adoptive one.
They will tell you the same thing

I think as long as we do our homework and try to understand how our adopted child may feel growing up in a house where “they are the odd man out”, everything will work out.

I had to quote that because I feel deeply even if you are trying to understand how your adopted child feels as the odd man out- does not dismiss the fact that HE/SHE .... IS….. the ODD MAN OUT and always will be.

There is a great book re this issue
Brothers and Sisters in Adoption: Helping Children Navigate Relationships When New Kids Join the Family by Arleta James